Comments on: Noah’s Drunkeness http://johnmangels.com/2010/01/20/noahs-drunkeness/ Musings by and conversations with John Mangels Mon, 28 May 2012 16:45:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: johnmangels http://johnmangels.com/2010/01/20/noahs-drunkeness/#comment-250 Fri, 22 Jan 2010 02:15:02 +0000 http://johnmangels.com/?p=698#comment-250 I’m not sure God carried out Noah’s curse. Noah declared his grandson a slave. That made it so. That would be my read anyway. But the context, finding this in the scriptures, in a context which seems to imply approval, IS suggestive of God’s approval. I’m still holding out for a God who works with what he has and lives, to some extent, with the culture of his followers …

]]> By: Karen Freeman http://johnmangels.com/2010/01/20/noahs-drunkeness/#comment-248 Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:13:56 +0000 http://johnmangels.com/?p=698#comment-248 Noah did speak the curse to Canaan, but would you not agree that God carried it out?

Regarding the ‘irrational overkill’: I really only mentioned the cross as an after-thought, as I originally felt the Canaan curse was an event of ‘irrational overkill’. But when the words came to me (‘irrational overkill’) it suddenly dawned on me that the cross could possibly also fit that description. Both are difficult to comprehend, with our limited abilities (or maybe that’s just me!). However, we could say that the Canaan curse didn’t affect anyone else apart from the Canaanites, but the cross has affected us all.

]]> By: John Mangels http://johnmangels.com/2010/01/20/noahs-drunkeness/#comment-247 Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:48:42 +0000 http://johnmangels.com/?p=698#comment-247 Karen, I guess I need help on the tie in you are seeing between the punishment of Canaan and the cross of Jesus. Anyway, on to your second paragraph: in this story at least, it is Noah who is doing the irrational punishing. Certainly it is in scripture (and given with implicit approval as such). But I sometimes wonder how much some scripture reflects the culture of its time, perhaps more than the will of God.

]]> By: Karen Freeman http://johnmangels.com/2010/01/20/noahs-drunkeness/#comment-246 Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:22:52 +0000 http://johnmangels.com/?p=698#comment-246 Interesting. I feel the same whenever I read this passage. The sins of the father visited upon the son. I guess it points out the emphasis of family honour and the great responsibility of careful parenting. It does seem a little like irrational overkill. But then, couldn’t we also say the cross was irrational overkill?

I do have trouble with a lot of the Old Testament stories and the kind of God they point to.

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